This is a comment by Mostly_123 on the post “Comedian Jim Norton: I’m Disgusted By Suggestions Lindy West Should Be Raped“.
Mostly_123 said:
You’re not the only one who is digested by the malice leveled at Lindy West. I just wanted to say I saw the discussion piece from ‘Totally Biased’ (YouTube) last week and I really enjoyed it: I thought you made a great case all the way through, and I’m glad you did. I agreed with your arguments very strongly, and I disagreed with Lindy’s arguments very strongly- and yeah, gender politics and ideological interpretations often engender strong feelings and passionate disagreements. Which makes it disappointing & disheartening to have it sullied by an aftermath of some people’s grotesque personal attacks in order to revolt and revile.
Those malicious posts against Lindy are all the more discouraging, not just because (to say the least) they’re cruel, crude, and willfully malicious; but also because they demean the whole process of discourse- Like you said, it’s not just being mean; it’s being lazy and resenting the person who took time & effort to articulate WHY they believe what they do — even if that ‘something’ is something another person totally disagrees with. The people who would hurl obscenities or wish violence upon another, rather than legitimately challenging a perspective (ESPECIALLY one that deserves to be legitimately challenged) can’t really demean Lindy (or, for that matter, you, me, or anyone else engaged in the discourse) with hateful epithets; though obviously not for lack of trying. But they do, in fact, demean themselves.
It’s disrespectful to one’s self to be such a poor advocate for something they obviously feel so passionately about: If it’s important enough to enrage you to the point of taking the time to hurl obscenities at a stranger, shouldn’t it be at least important enough to make the case for WHY you should feel so enraged? Shouldn’t one at least try to justify and validate their own outrage by making their own case, and making it well? Seriously, it’s much easier to take a position that one feels passionate about, than it is on something where you’re ambivalent.
Malice & blind rage can feel good for a moment; but it’s also a blunt demonstration of one’s own impotence and powerlessness: Really- no one has ever responded to a comment like “Shut up, Fuck-face!” with (a sincere): “Ah, I see your point now. Thank-you for pointing out that significant flaw in my argument, and genuinely guiding me along the path of your logic.” In the end, “Fuck you!” just means “I won’t try to persuade you, but I can’t dismiss you either” — in a (key)stroke, creates one’s own adversary, and then it validates their argument to boot- a lose/lose proposition.
People say things and hold ideological positions that make us mad (legitimately or illegitimately). But don’t just get mad, get introspective. And that’s not just an altruistic point of view either — Pragmatically; when a person starts looking at WHY somebody else’s position is making them outraged, then they’re starting to take it apart. When a person does this, they have a better understanding of the mechanics of both the argument they disagree with, as well as their own logic, and how & why they oppose it. So, in the end they’re going to be better able to argue their own case that much more effectively, articulately & confidently (and really stick it to that jerk who has the ‘wrong’ opinion). Or you might discover a flaw in your own logic, or even some points of agreement with the position you’re arguing against: That’s knowledge, and knowledge is power- and who doesn’t want at least a little more of that?
I myself (obviously) have trouble articulating my positions in less that 140 characters, or 10 second sound-bites, so I don’t put a lot of stock into what’s said there- yes, there are tons of malice and hate out there beneath the blue sky, at least superficially. But breadth does not necessarily equal depth. I myself have little expectation that we, in a free society, can ever truly insulate ourselves from other people’s bigotry. This is because it takes so little effort to sling an epithet, and so the slingers look bigger and more numerous than they are. But in the end, those slingers are the most apathetic ones of all — and apathy never gets anything done.
Sorry to ramble on. But thanks again Jim & Lindy for taking the time to make an articulate argument on a topic that you feel passionately about, (whether I agree or disagree with your position) and sticking by it with conviction (whether I think it’s a sound conviction or not).
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The post “No one has ever responded to a comment like ‘Shut up, F*ck-face!’ with a sincere ‘Ah, I see your point now.'” appeared first on The Good Men Project.